In conversation with Nina DiSesa,
Chairman, McCann Erickson New York
Catharine Fennell sits down to discuss the glass ceiling, the corporate ‘ole boys club and navigating your career with Nina DiSesa, author of recently released Seducing the Boys Club and Chairman, McCann Erickson New York.
"Working hard and doing a good job wasn’t enough to get me where I wanted to go—which was to the top of the game."
- Nina DiSesa, Chairman, McCann Erickson New York
| Book: Seducing the Boys Club Listen to our conversation (25 min. duration) |
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CF: Why did you choose the words seduce and ‘boys club’ in the title of your book?
ND: I have used a series of more inflammatory words throughout the book! I wanted it to be provocative and to the point, aimed at women who work in male dominated cultures who feel they are not moving up in the corporation. Seducing the boys club is a title that came to me some time ago.
Nobody has a problem with the word seduction but everyone takes exception to the word manipulation. Hey, you can be a benevolent manipulator!
Women are operating on a different playing field. If you are outnumbered you may need to use different tactics to get where you need to go.
I learned pretty early that hard work wasn’t going to be enough. I had to figure out different ways to make my goal
I always had a five year plan. You need to have something in mind-- something to aim for. If you don’t have these plans in your mind you are going to wallow in a job where you are not getting what you want.
The book was actually a series of errors. Nobody wants to hear about all of your successes! They want to hear - what did you learn? You don’t learn when you get it right. You only learn when you make a mistake and you have to recover from it.
CF: Why is it still important to make men comfortable to be around ‘us’?
ND: People tend to like people that they are comfortable with.
You pick your friends that way. Men like to surround themselves with people they feel comfortable with-- people who are going to watch their back. Who are they going to share the trenches with?
Women at the top get fired. I have a feeling, and I won’t quantify this, that it is easier for a woman at the top to get fired than it is for a man. If you are at the top and you are not a rain maker and proving your worth, it is really easy for them to get rid of you. We as women will always have to work harder and do everything with greater skill than our male counterparts.
We have to compensate for the fact that we are women. And, that is so wrong!
We (women) listen with our eyes. A woman goes in there and reads the room. Women have a sensitivity to their decision making process. We need women in business! I am very worried that women are dropping out in droves because they just get too frustrated. If that happens all of our bright, talented, clever women are going to be out of the workforce and business is going to suffer.
CF: Why is it that women/people love to hate strong women?
ND: I don’t know necessarily that they love to hate strong women. I think they do hate women that make it to the top and forget what skills they have to get there. Listen now!
CF: Once women get to the top, why are they often accused of adopting a different style or becoming unsupportive of women?
ND: I think they feel threatened. Women don’t know how to charm other women. Men know how to charm women and other men that they work for. Women don’t do that. They feel like “why should I have to do that?”. Hey, I stoop to conquer!
You can be one of two types of leaders. You can be a dictator or a motivator.
CF: Are we making progress (as women) or do we still need to work hard at every stage of the game to politic our way up?
ND: There was an article in the April edition of Portfolio Magazine that said ‘by every measure we are moving backwards. It’s going to be 2081 before we reach any parody with men. I think it will be hard if we continue to follow the rules that people are putting in front of us. My point is if it is not working for you; figure out some other way to skin the cat!
CF: What moment in your career did you feel that you had arrived?
ND: My big plan, which I didn’t really have until I was half way through my career, was to be the creative director of a big New York Advertising agency and I made it in 1994 when I came back to McCann Erickson as the creative director and three years later I was made chairman and chief creative officer. I am extremely happy with the way my career went and where I am and the job that I have now. I have no regrets. And if you have no regrets you cannot look back and say ‘I wish I had done this differently’. Because anything that you might have done differently wouldn’t haven’t gotten you to the place where you currently are.
CF: What is success for you going forward?
ND: I definitely have a plan now! In five years I would like to have a novel on the New York Times bestselling list. I always wanted to be a writer but I got sidetracked with the advertising business. I want to be an author that women especially want to read. I want to help women get what they want.
CF: Is personal branding important and has it been important for you?
ND: Women creative directors are very rare. Because of that, I always got a lot of press because I was a woman in a man’s world. Make sure that people know who you are, what you believe in and what you stand for.
CF: Women with kids—when you have a family does that hinder you in any way?
ND: If you want to have a family and see how far you can go in an organization, you have to be very good. If someone needs you, they will do anything to keep you and make you happy.
